Papers of John Adams, volume 17
r.26. 1785
The Duke of Dorset, in his Letter to the Ministers of the United States of America, dated at Paris the 26. March last, informed them, that having communicated to his Court the Readiness they expressed in their Letter to his Grace of the ninth of December to remove to London, for the purpose of treating upon Such Points as may materially concern the Interests both political and commercial of Great Britain and America, and having at the same time represented that they had declared themselves to be fully authorized and empowered to negotiate, His Grace had been in answer thereto instructed to learn from them, what was the real nature of the 474Powers, with which they were invested: Whether they were merely commissioned by Congress, or whether they had received Seperate Powers from the respective States,
The Expectation of a new Arrangement, and the Arrival of the Intelligence of the Appointment of a Minister to this Court from the United States, prevented those American Ministers from giving any Answer to those Inquiries of his Grace: but as it may be expected that I Should take some notice of them, I beg leave to represent to Your Lordship, that by the Sixth Article of the Confederation and perpetual Union of the United States, “no State without the Consent of the United States in Congress assembled, Shall Send any Embassy to, or receive any Embassy from, or enter into any Conference Agreement, Alliance, or Treaty, with any King, Prince, or State; and by the ninth Article of the Same Confederation The United States in Congress assembled, Shall have the Sole and exclusive Right and Power,” among other Things, “of Sending and receiving Ambassadors; entering into Treaties and Alliances, provided that no Treaty of Commerce Shall be made, whereby the legislative Power of the respective States Shall be restrained, from imposing Such Imposts and Duties on Foreigners, as their own People are Subjected to; or from prohibiting the Exportation or Importation of any Species of Goods or Commodities whatsoever:” From these Words of our Confederation, your Lordship will perceive, that in all Things which concern, either Embassies or Treaties, the Powers of the United States in Congress assembled are Sovereign and Supream with only two Limitations, which common Prudence would dictate to any Nation to prescribe to itself. The Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union have been not only passed and agreed to by the United States in Congress assembled, but have been Since Seperately received, ratified and confirmed and thereby become the Law of the Land in every one of the States. All Treaties therefore made, or which may be made, in Virtue of those Powers, are binding upon each State and every Citizen, as fully as any Treaty which can be made by any Sovereign is binding on his Subjects.2
With great Respect, I have the Honour to be, My Lord, your Lordships, most obedient, and / must humble Servant
RC (PRO:FO 4, State Papers, vol. 3, f. 611–614); internal address: “The Right Honourable / The Marquis of Carmarthen / Secretary of State for foreign / 475Affairs.”; endorsed: “Grosvenor Square Septr. / 26th: 1785. / Mr. Adams. / R. 20th: Octr.” LbC (Adams Papers); APM Reel 111.
This letter is curious because while there is no reason to doubt that it was written on 26 Sept., JA did not present it to Carmarthen until he met formally with the foreign minister on 20 Oct., and the LbC is located between copies of two other documents, dated 17 Oct., which JA gave to him at the same time. But it should also be noted that on 14 Sept., Carmarthen wrote to JA to request that the meeting be postponed to 22 Sept. The two men dined together on that day, as they also did at the American legation on the 30th (
AFC
, 6:380, 386, 395). The most likely explanation is that JA withheld this letter until there was sufficient business to be transacted to justify requesting a meeting with Carmarthen (to John Jay, 21 Oct., and notes 2 and 3, below). If that was the case, then the precipitating factor was the arrival, on 15 Oct., of Jay’s 6 Sept. letter, wherein Jay noted the difficulties over the frontier posts, Anglo-American trade, and debts and also enclosed Congress’ resolution regarding the Stanhope Affair (to Jay, 15 Oct. and 21 Oct., note 1, both below). It was on the 15th that JA wrote to Carmarthen to request a meeting (Adams Papers).
As he indicates, JA is replying to the Duke of Dorset’s 26 March letter to the commissioners, which was in response to their letter of 9 Dec. 1784 (vol. 16:446–447, 577–578). Having been informed by them of their new joint commission to negotiate an Anglo-American treaty, Dorset indicated that he had been instructed to determine the precise scope of the commissioners’ powers, and whether Congress had the power to compel the individual states to observe the provisions of any treaty that was negotiated in its name. In their 16 May 1785 reply to Dorset’s letter of 26 March, the commissioners did not deal with the issues raised by the British ambassador because the three commissioners, presumably including JA, believed that the appointment of a minister to Great Britain had rendered them moot. Clearly, by 26 Sept. JA thought that a definitive, or at least more complete, response to Dorset’s queries than had been given by the commissioners on 16 May was required.
There were a number of reasons why JA, almost four months after taking up his post as American minister, may have been motivated to write this letter, but the most important was probably the Pitt ministry’s failure to make any meaningful response to his representations. No progress had been made with respect to the British evacuation of the frontier posts, the payment of prewar debts, or the removal of American property and slaves by British forces upon their evacuation of the United States. Moreover, nothing had been said regarding the major issue facing the two countries, the conclusion of a commercial treaty, a draft of which JA had submitted to Carmarthen almost two months earlier, on 29 July, above.
The real question is why JA waited to deliver this letter, because he must have been aware from the beginning of his tenure that the issues raised in Dorset’s letter remained important to both the government and the general public. Indeed, Carmarthen raised the issue of Congress’s authority over the states in matters of trade at his first meeting with JA on 17 June, specifically regarding newspaper reports of demonstrations in Boston against British domination of Anglo-American trade (to Jay, 17 June, and note 9, above). There were also comments in London newspapers, such as the 6 June London Morning Herald and Daily Advertiser, which stated that “an Ambassador from the United States of America, it seems, has produced his credentials to the Secretary of State!!!— His Excellency ought to produce not only his own credentials from Congress, but also the credentials of Congress itself, certifying the power and authority of that body to treat and conclude treaties for the Thirteen United States, collectively and individually, and to enforce what they may stipulate against as well as for them.” And on 29 June that paper was even more explicit, declaring that Congress “have not even a shadow of power in their own country; for, by the best accounts from that continent, there is not, at this moment, any one of the Thirteen States, as they are pompously called, that acknowledges the supremacy of such a head, or pays the least regard to their ordinances and decrees.”
In his response JA quotes accurately from Arts. 6 and 9 of the Articles of Confederation, but the issue from the British point of view, as is evident from Carmarthen’s remarks and the newspaper pieces, was not with 476Congress’ exclusive right to conduct diplomatic relations and enter “into treaties and alliances.” Rather it was with the portion of Art. 9 limiting Congress’ power over the states’ ability to levy “imposts and duties” and to prohibit “the exportation or importation of any species of goods or commodities whatsoever.” These limitations brought into question the United States’ ability to agree to reciprocal trade provisions in a commercial treaty or, perhaps most importantly, to enforce most favored nation clauses.
Vous nous avez fait, notre cher ami, un veritable plaisir en nous donnant de vos nouvelles;1 nous avons Souvent prié M. Jefferson de vous faire parvenir nos Compliments et de vous temoigner tous nos regrets sur votre absence, il n’a surement pas manqué de remplir Cette Commission.
Si nous ne consultions que l’amitié que nous avons pour vous, nous ferions le voyage de Londres nous avons tant et tant de Chaines qui nous retiennent, qu’il faut que nous renoncions à Cette douce Satisfaction. tout Ce que nous pouvons faire c’est de vous donner de nos nouvelles et de vous assurer que nous vous aimons toujours et que nous Sommes disposés à faire tout Ce qui pourra vous etre agreable2
vous pouvez, notre cher ami, faire valoir notre zele à vous Servir dans tout Ce qui dependra de nous. nos Services ne Cesseront pas d’etre à vos ordres, et nous mettrons au nombre de nos plaisirs Celui de vous etre utile.
nous nous flattons, et notre amitié pour vous est notre garans, que vos nouveaux amis de Londres ne vous ont pas fait oublier Ceux de Paris. nos droits Sur votre Cœur Sont et Seront respectés par votre vertu. vous ne trouverez pas dans toute l’Angleterre et meme dans votre nouvelle republique, des amis qui vous Soient plus Sincerement et plus Constamment attachés que nous. vous Connoissez notre façon de penser, la forme de notre gouvernement n’a pas deformé notre ame, nous Conservons notre raison avec tous Ses privileges. nous Sommes veritablement philantropes. mais nous avons des sentiments particuliers, que nous n’accordons pas à la generalité. nous Sçavons distinguer les talents et les vertus et placer auprès d’eux notre estime et notre respect.—
vous voyez, notre Cher ami, qu’avec notre philantropie vous n’êtes pas Confondu avec la foule. vous meritez à la verité Cette distinction et notre amitié vous rend Cette justice.
477nous Sommes bien Sensible au souvenir de Mde et de Mlle. Adams. nous vous prions de les assurer de notre attachement respectueux, vous étes heureux par votre femme et par vos enfants. nous vous en felicitons, vous le Serez encore par vos petits enfants parce que la vertu est toujours une Source de bonheur.
Votre Sagesse ne vous permettoit pas de nous parler des affaires de votre Ministere, nous Sçavons ce que vous devez à votre qualité d’homme public. nous profiterons de notre liberte d’hommes privés pour vous dire que quand on traite des affaires d’Etat et que l’avarice Se mele de la partie, on trouvee mille et mille obstacles. on voit avec douleur que la bonheur des nations n’est pas l’objet essentiel des gouvernements. ils ne veulent que de l’argent de l’argent et de l’argent. ils n’aiment le Commerce ils ne le favorisent ils ne l’étendent que pour avoir de l’argent. ils Scavent qu’avec ce metal et nos idees, ils Seront maitres de tout. dans cet état de choses nous vous plaignons et nous partageons vos peines et vos embarras. il vous a été plus facile de Conquerir votre liberté que de faire entendre raison à l’avarice; notre interest pour l’amerique nous a fait partager les heureux Succès de votre guerre, le meme interest nous fera partager ceux de votre mission.
nous reclamons votre amitié, notre cher Monsieur, en faveur de M. Poncet Celebre Sculpteur françois que les Affaires Conduisent à Londres.3 il vous remettra notre lettre. nous aimons et nous estimons Cet Artiste, et nous vous prions de lui faire toutes les politesses qui dependrons de vous. notre amitié vous tiendra Compte de tout ce que vous ferez pour lui. nous l’avons prié de nous apporter de vos nouvelles et de Celles de vos dames. Son Sejour à londres ne sera que d’un mois. vous avez tout le tems necessaire pour nous ecrire une longue et très longue lettre, votre françois nous plait beaucoup, vous Connoissez assez notre langue pour nous Communiquer toutes les idées et tous les Sentiments que votre Coeur vous inspirera pour deux abbés qui vous ont voué leur estime et leur amitié et qui Seront toujours avec ces Sentiments / notre cher ami / vos très humbles / et très obeissants serviteurs
nous avons bien recommandé à M. Poncet, de nous apporter une lettre de votre part. Comme il aura l’honneur de diner avec vous et de boire avec vous à notre Santé à Son retour à Paris nous boirons à la votre et à Celle de vos dames
You granted us a distinct pleasure, dear friend, in sending us word of yourself.1 We have oftentimes begged Mr. Jefferson to send you our compliments and to attest to you how much we regret your absence. Surely he has not failed to satisfy our request.
If it were up to the friendship alone which we feel for you, we would make the voyage to London. We have so many chains which tie us down that we must give up the hope of such a sweet satisfaction. All that we may do is to send you news of us, and to assure you that we love you still and that we are disposed to do everything that might be agreeable to you.2
You may, dear friend, call on our zeal to serve you in everything that is in our power. Our services will never cease to be at your command, and we count our being useful to you among our pleasures.
We flatter ourselves, and our friendship for you assures us, that your new London friends have not caused you to forget those of Paris. Our rights upon your heart are and shall be respected by your virtue. You will not find in all of England, and even in your new republic, any friends who are more sincerely and more steadfastly devoted to you than us. You are familiar with our way of thinking, our form of government has not corrupted our soul, and we conserve our reason with all of its privileges. We are truly philanthropes, but we have certain feelings which we do not bestow upon everyone in general. We know how to distinguish talents and virtues, and to invest our esteem and our respect in them.
You see then, our dear friend, that by our philanthropy you are not thrown in with the masses. In truth, you deserve this distinction and in this our friendship does you justice.
We cherish well our recollections of Mrs. and Miss Adams. We pray you remind them of our respectful attachment. You are blessed by your wife and children. We congratulate you. You will be all the more by your grandchildren because virtue is always a source of happiness.
Your wisdom did not permit you to speak of the affairs of your office. We know what you owe to your duty as a man of public service. We take advantage of the liberty of private men in telling you that when engaged in political matters, if avarice gets involved in the situation, one finds thousands upon thousands of obstacles. We painfully recognize that the well-being of nations is not the principal object of governments. They desire but money and money and more money. They love commerce, they favor it, they help it expand only to have money. They know that with that metal and our ideas they shall be masters over everything. In this state of affairs we commiserate with you and share your troubles and your difficulties. It was easier for you to win your liberty than to make avarice hear reason. Our concern for America had us share the fortunate outcome of your war; the same concern will have us share that of your mission.
We call upon your friendship, our dear sir, to favor Mr. Poncet, 479celebrated French sculptor, who is headed to London on business.3 He will transmit our letter to you. We love and esteem this artist, and we beg you to grant him all of the courtesies in your power. Our friendship shall not neglect to repay everything you might do for him. We have asked him to bring us news of you and of your ladies. His stay in London will be for only a month. You have all the requisite time to write us a nice, long letter. Your French pleases us greatly. You know our language well enough to communicate all the ideas and all the sentiments that your heart will inspire you for two priests who have vowed you their esteem and their friendship, and who shall always be, with these same sentiments, dear friend, your most humble and most obedient servants
We have recommended to Mr. Poncet that he bring us a letter from you. As he will have the honor of dining with you and drinking with you to our health, upon his return to Paris we will drink to yours and that of your ladies.
RC (Adams Papers); endorsed: “Abbés Chalut et / Arnoux.”; notation: “26. Septr 1785.”
If, as the abbés seem to indicate here, and in the seventh paragraph below, JA had written to them since his arrival in London, the letter has not been found. For the Abbés Chalut and Arnoux, who had been close to the Adams family at Auteuil and had known JA since his earliest days in France in 1778, when they helped him learn French, see JA, D&A
, 2:317; 4:59.
Thomas Jefferson wrote to AA on 7 July 1785 that the abbés would be forced to remain in Paris for the summer because of their responsibility to settle the affairs of the Abbé de Mably, who had died in April and with whom Chalut and Arnoux had resided (vol. 16:538–539;
AFC
, 6:224).
This is François Marie Poncet (1736–1797), a French sculptor (Oxford Art Online). Arriving in London in early October, Poncet dined with the Adamses on the 11th. AA2 thought him “un homme a d’Esprit” but rendered his name as “Mr. Pointsa” (
AFC
, 6:435). He returned to Paris by 21 Oct., the date of the abbés’ letter to JA in which they thanked him for the kindness shown to Poncet (Adams Papers).