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Papers of the Winthrop Family, Volume 3

146
Thomas Oliver to John Winthrop, Jr.1
Oliver, Thomas Winthrop, John, Jr.

1634-01-03

To the Right Worshipfull his very loving frend Mr. Winthorpe at Agawam thes be delivered

The good sperit of god posses your precious souls

Right loving Brother in the best beloued,

my deare loue and servis Remembered to you, and your beloved on: with many thanks for many kindneses Reseved from you both. the good lord shew mercy to your souls againe: the great ioye that wee haue in the ordinance of Christ is mixt with sorow that our souls should faire so well, and you our dear bretherin and sisters should want the same. We may pity your state for the Present: but help you we Canot by Reson of the sharpnes of the time, but we trust our good father will suply your wants, and be as a litle sanctuary to you for the present and giue a duble suply in the end and so fill your souls with such a measure of that precyous grace of faith in beleeving, that our good father that brought you to that Place will send after you in his time, for those that serv him shall lack nothing that is good: this time of the want that your souls stands in for the present: will move you to mak a precious acount of it, when it Coms, which we do ernestly desire you may haue to the sweet Content of your souls: my wiffe Remembers here dear loue to you both: the good lord be with you both and gard your bodys by his angels, and gide your souls by his good sperit. yours truly to Command in the lord

Thomas Oliver Boston this 3 of the first moneth 1634 N.S. 2
1.

W. 1. 104. Thomas Oliver, a native of Bristol, came to Boston in 1632. He served as selectman, 1634–1638, and was a ruling elder of the First Church.

2.

It would seem as if the correct date for this letter must be January 3, 1634 (N.S.). Oliver must either have used New Style dating or have made an error in the year. In March, 1634/35, John Winthrop, Jr., was in England, not in Ipswich. Furthermore, his first wife died in July, 1634, and there is evidence that his second marriage, which occurred in England, had not taken place by March, 1634/35.

John Winthrop to John Endecott1
Winthrop, John Endecott, John

1634-01-03

The things which will cheifly be layd to his charge are these. 1: that he chargethe Kinge James with a solemne publick lye. 2: that he chargethe 147bothe Kinges and others with blasphemy for calling Europe Christendom, or the Christian world etc. 3: for personall application of 3 places in Rev:2 to our present Kinge Charles. 4: for concluding vs all heere to lye vnder a sinne of vniust vsurpation vpon others possessions: and all these to be maintayned and published by a private person etc:

For the first: it was no lye of Kinge James, but the Trueth: for his people were the first, that discovered these parts: but admitt he had been mistaken: was it ever knowne, that a true Christian did give his naturall Prince the lye? was he not the Lords anointed?

For the 2: that it should be Blasphemye to saye Christendom or the Christian worlde: and for a subiecte heervpon to charge his Prince with Blasphemye is too great presumption: are not things often named from the better parte, as the Electe are called the worlde in 8 places at least: as God loued the worlde, reconciled the world etc.? Again all Israelites (good and badd) were called the Circumcision and the people of God etc: to distinguish them from the Heathen: so may all baptized ones be called Christians to distinguishe them from the Turks etc: in which respecte to be baptized and Christned were all one: because Baptisme was the first publick badge whereby a Christian was distinguished from a Pagan: and so in the dayes of Constantine and Jovinian and other godly emperors, the Arians, manichees and other Heretiks were called Christians and that without Offence to the most orthodoxe: who tooke it in no other sence than as baptized ones, to distinguishe them onely from the Pagans, who were the Common opposites to them all: therefore I am perswaded it is no Blasphemy (when I would distinguish a nation, that professeth the Faith of Jesus Christ (be it in trueth or not) from other nations which professe him not) to saye they are Christians: neither is it any more Contradiction (as he would make it) to saye a Christian worlde, or a heavenly earthe, than to saye an heauen vpon earthe or a worldly sanctuarye: Heb: 9: 2. for if he allowe not allegoryes, he must condemn his owne writings and speeches, seeinge no man vseth them more than him selfe: and this verye treatice of his, exceeds all that ever I haue read (of so serious an Argument) in figures and flourishes. For the 3: the first place which he applies to our Kinge is Rev: 16: 14 the spiritts of Deuills going forth to the kinges of the earth, which is all one, as if he had sayde, that the Deuill had 148seduced him to take vp armes with Antechrist against the Lord Jesus: Christ. the next is Rev: 17: 12, where settinge downe onely the first words of the 10 Kinges who should giue their power and strengthe to the beast, to make warre with the Lambe (not addinge any more nor so muche as we doe) he makes our Kinge a friend of the Beast and an enemye of Jesus Christ. the 3 is Rev: 18:19, by which he makes our Kinge one of those, who have comitted Fornication with the whore, and shall bewayle her destruction. now for him to give this sentence of his sovereigne, who professeth and maintaines the Faith of Jesus Christ, and dothe not professedly holde any Communion with the whore of Rome or publikly maintaine the Religion of Ante-christ or the power of the beast, if it be not treason, yet I dare saye, it is strange boldnesse, and beyond the Limitts of his callinge: For I would gladly knowe, to what good ende, and for what Vse of Edification, he should publish these things in this lande (if they were as he supposethe them) dothe he see any pronenesse in this people, to ioyne with the beast or the whore? or dothe he feare least our Kinge beinge vpon such a designe, would sende for our Assistance? It should seeme the Apostle Paule wanted Courage, when he shunnes to name the Emperour, otherwise then by several implications, he which withholdeth etc. must be taken away. mr. williams would have spoken downeright, the Romane empire must be taken awaye, but if he had loued the peace of these Churches as Paul did those, he would not (for smale or no occasion) have provoked our Kinge against vs, and putt a sworde into his hande to destroye vs.

Now for the 4th viz: our title to what we possesse: it is not Religious (as he supposethe) neither dothe our Kinge challenge any right heer by his Christianyty: for admitt the grande Patent runne as he alledgethe (for my parte I never sawe it, and I doubt whither he did or not) yet dothe not any suche conclusion necessaryly followe. for what if Kinge James had sayd that he was the first of all the Princes of Europe etc: would it therefore have followed that he had claymed it as belonginge to the Princes of Europe? and for the other Clause provided it be not actually possessed by the subiect of any other Christian Prince: this is onely to shewe that he would not contende with any suche of his neighbours: and it plainly proves, that he accounted possession the better title: But to clere all this, it is well knowne, that these Patents are not drawne by any direction from the Kinge or State, but by some Counsellor at Lawe whom the Patentee imployes, and allowed by the Attorneye general. yet let the case be as stronge on his parte as he pretends, the example of the Jewes takinge the benefit of Kinge Cirus proclamation, notwithstandinge that proude and false grounde which he lays for it: viz: that God 149had given him all the kingdomes of the earth etc: wilbe sufficient to confute his error. But if our title be not good, neither by Patent, nor possession of these parts as vacuum domicilium, nor by good likinge of the natiues: I mervayle by what title mr. Williams him selfe holdes. and if God were not pleased with our inheriting these parts, why did he drive out the natiues before vs? and why dothe he still make roome for vs, by deminishinge them as we increace? why hathe he planted his Churches heere? why dothe he declare his favourable presence amonge vs by makinge his Ordinances effectuall to the savinge of many soules? If we had no right to this lande, yet our God hathe right to it, and if he be pleased to give it us (takinge it from a people who had so longe vsurped vpon him, and abused his Creatures) who shall controll him or his termes? But this point will require a particular Treatice.

John Winthrop Jany. 3, 1633/34.

Endorsed by Governor Winthrop: To mr. Endecott about mr. Williams.

1.

W. 1. 103; 1 Proceedings , VII. 343–345. The occasion for this communication to Endecott was Roger Williams’s “treatise,” written during his sojourn at Plymouth, wherein he attacked the validity of the royal patent for “these parts.” Upon Williams’s return to Massachusetts Bay the powers that be felt it necessary to take official cognizance of this document, and the Governor and Assistants, meeting at Boston on December 27, 1633, gave order, after “taking advice with some of the most judicious ministers,” for Williams’s appearance at the next General Court. Endecott was not present at this meeting, and Winthrop, as he states in his Journal (1. 117), wrote Endecott “to let him know what was done, and withal added divers arguments to confute the said errors. . . .”; also printed in D.J.W. .

2.

In the margin: “Rev: 16: 13, 14, 17: 12. 13. 18: 19.”