Papers of John Adams, volume 17

From Thomas Jefferson, 24 September 1785 Jefferson, Thomas Adams, John
From Thomas Jefferson
Dear Sir Paris Sep. 24. 1785.

My letter of Sep. 19. written the morning after mr̃ Lamb’s arrival here, would inform you of that circumstance. I transmit you herewith copies of the papers he brought to us on the subject of the Barbary treaties.1 you will see by them that Congress has adopted the very plan which we were proposing to pursue. it will now go on under less danger of objection from the other parties. the receipt of these new papers therefore has rendered necessary no change in matter of substance in the dispatches we had prepared.2 but they render some formal changes necessary. for instance in our letter of credence for mr̃ Barclay to the Emperor of Marocco, it becomes improper to enter into those explanations which seemed proper 467when that letter was drawn; because Congress in their letter enter into that explanation.3 in the letter to the Ct. de Vergennes it became proper to mention the new full powers received from Congress & which in some measure accord with the idea communicated by him to us from the M. de Castries. these & other formal alterations, which appeared necessary to me, I have made, leaving so much of the original draughts approved & amended by you as were not inconsistent with these alterations.4 I have therefore had them prepared fair to save you the trouble of copying; yet wherever you chuse to make alterations you will be so good as to make them; taking in that case the trouble of having new fair copies made out.

You will perceive by mr̃ Jay’s letter that Congress had not thought proper to give mr̃ Lamb any appointment. I imagine they apprehended it might interfere with measures actually taken by us. notwithstanding the perfect freedom which they are pleased to leave to us on his subject, I cannot feel myself clear of that bias which a presumption of their pleasure gives, & ought to give. I presume that mr̃ Lamb met their approbation, because of the recommendations he carried from the Governor & state of Connecticut,5 because of his actual knowlege of the country and people of the states of Barbary, because of the detention of these letters from March to July, which considering their pressing nature would otherwise have been sent by other Americans who in the mean time have come from N. York to Paris; & because too of the information we received by mr̃ Jarvis.6 these reasons are not strong enough to set aside our appointment of mr̃ Barclay to Marocco: that I think should go on, as no man could be sent who would enjoy more the confidence of Congress. but they are strong enough to induce me to propose to you the appointment of Lamb to Algiers. he has followed for many years the Barbary trade & seems intimately acquainted with those states. I have not seen enough of him to judge of his abilities. he seems not deficient as far as I can see, & the footing on which he comes must furnish a presumption for what we do not see. we must say the same as to his integrity; we must rely for this on the recommendations he brings, as it is impossible for us to judge of this for ourselves. yet it will be our duty to use such reasonable cautions as are in our power. two occur to me. 1. to give him a clerk capable of assisting & attending to his proceedings and who, in case he thought any thing was going amiss, might give us information. 2. not to give a credit on Van Staphorst & Willinck, but let his draughts be made on yourself, which with the knowlege you will 468have of his proceedings, will enable you to check them, if you are sensible of any abuse intended. this will give you trouble; but as I have never found you declining trouble when it is necessary, I venture to propose it. I hope it will not expose you to inconvenience as by instructing Lamb to insert in his draughts a proper usance you can in the mean time raise the money for them by drawing on Holland. I must inform you that mr̃ Barclay wishes to be put on the same footing with mr̃ Lamb as to this article & therefore I return you your letter of Credit on Van Staphorsts & co.7 as to the 1st. article there is great difficulty. there is no body at Paris fit for the undertaking who would be likely to accept of it. I mean there is no American, for I should be anxious to place a native in the trust. perhaps you can send us one from London. there is a mr̃ Randolph there from New York whom mr̃ Barclay thinks might be relied on very firmly for integrity & capacity. he is there for his health: perhaps you can persuade him to go to Algiers in pursuit of it.8 if you cannot, I really know not what will be done. it is impossible to propose to Bancroft to go in a secondary capacity. mr̃ Barclay & myself have thought of Cairnes at l’Orient as a dernier resort. but it is incertain, or rather improbable that he will undertake it. you will be pleased in the first place to consider of my proposition to send Lamb to Algiers, & in the next all the circumstances before detailed as consequences of that. the inclosed letter from Richard O’Bryan furnishes powerful motives for commencing by some means or other, the treaty with Algiers more immediately than would be done if left on mr̃ Barclay. you will perceive by that that two of our vessels with their crews & cargoes have been carried captive into that port. what is to be done as to those poor people? I am for hazarding the supplementory instruction to Lamb which accompanies these papers. alter it or reject it as you please. you ask what I think of claiming the Dutch interposition. I doubt the fidelity of any interposition too much to desire it sincerely. our letters to this court heretofore seemed to oblige us to communicate with them on the subject. if you think the Dutch would take amiss our not applying to them, I will join you in the application. otherwise the fewer are apprised of our proceedings the better. to communicate them to the States of Holland is to communicate them to the whole world.

Mr̃ Short returned last night & brought the Prussian treaty duly executed in English & French. we may send it to Congress by the mr̃ Fitzhughs going from hence. will you draw & sign a short letter 469for that purpose?9 I send you a copy of a letter received from the M. Fayette. in the present unsettled state of American commerce, I had as lieve avoid all further treaties except with American powers. if Count Merci therefore does not propose the subject to me, I shall not to him, nor do more than decency requires if he does propose it.10 I am with great esteem Dr. Sir / your most obedient humble sevt.

Th: Jefferson

RC and enclosures (Adams Papers); endorsed: “Mr Jefferson Sept. 24. / ansd 2. & 3. Oct. 1785”; notation by CFA: “published. vol 1st. p. 320,” that is, Jefferson, Correspondence, ed. Randolph, 1:320–323. For the enclosures, see note 1.

1.

John Lamb brought John Jay’s long-anticipated letter of 11 March and its multiple enclosures relating to negotiations with the Barbary States, for which see vol. 16:559–563. At 11 March in the Adams Papers are two sets of documents containing Jay’s letter and the enclosures. The first set, except for Congress’ resolution of 14 Feb. (to Benjamin Franklin and Jefferson, 29 May, note 2, above), is in David Humphreys’ hand and is probably what Jefferson enclosed with this letter. The second set consists of duplicates—many of them with the signatures of Richard Henry Lee, Jay, or Charles Thomson and endorsements by JA—of the documents included in the first set copied by Humphreys, but also the commissioners’ 11 March letters of credence to the rulers of Algiers, Morocco, Tripoli, and Tunis, notifying them of the commissioners’ powers to conclude treaties with them and to appoint an agent to conclude the actual negotiations (vol. 16:564–565). The second set also includes Congress’ letter of 11 March to the emperor of Morocco, explaining the delay in opening negotiations, which led to the revision of Thomas Barclay’s letter of credence, for which see the documents referred to in note 3.

It is not known when JA received the second set of documents, but in his 2 Nov. letter to Jefferson, Jay indicated that “Duplicates of the Papers he [Lamb] was charged with will be sent Tomorrow to Mr. Adams by a Passenger in the English Packet” (Jefferson, Papers , 9:8). For the joint commissions of 11 March to negotiate treaties with the Barbary States, see vol. 16:563–564.

2.

Jefferson’s reference to “dispatches” is probably to the commissioners’ letters to the president of Congress of 11 Nov. and 15 Dec. 1784 (vol. 16:420–427, 471–472); and to John Jay of 18 March 1785 (same, p. 568–570), 13 April, 11 May (both above), and the letter to Jay of 18 June signed only by Franklin and Jefferson (Jefferson, Papers , 8:235–236), in which they commented on negotiations with the Barbary States.

3.

See Barbary Negotiations, 12 Sept. – 11 Oct., Nos. I and VI, both above.

4.

See same, Nos. V and IX, both above.

5.

In his 11 March letter, Jay referred to recommendations for Lamb supplied by Matthew Griswold and Samuel Huntington (vol. 16:561, 563). But see also Abiel Foster’s 26 March letter to Jefferson, with which he enclosed a letter to him of 1 Jan. from Samuel Holden Parsons, Jefferson, Papers , 8:60; Burnett, Letters of Members , 8:72–73.

6.

According to Jefferson’s 22 June letter to William Carmichael, New York merchant James Jarvis informed the commissioners that “Congress were about to appoint a Mr. Lambe of Connecticut their Consul to Marocco and to send him to their ministers commissioned to treat with the Barbary powers for instructions” (Jefferson, Papers , 8:247).

7.

Jefferson returned the commissioners’ 12 Sept. letter to the loan consortium (Barbary Negotiations, No. III, above). For JA’s revised letter to the consortium of 6 Oct., and the letters of credit issued to Barclay and Lamb, see Nos. XI and XII, and notes, above.

8.

JA also refers to “Randolph” in his reply of 2 Oct., below, but both men meant Paul R. Randall, who, as JA indicated in a 5 Oct. postscript to the 2 Oct. letter, had been “prevailed upon” to accept the appointment as Lamb’s secretary.

9.

See the commissioners’ [11 Oct.] letter to Jay, below, signed by JA on 2 Oct. and Jefferson on the 11th.

10.

The enclosed copy of the Marquis de 470Lafayette’s 4 Sept. letter to Jefferson is at its date in the Adams Papers. Writing from Vienna, Lafayette commented on his discussions with Austrian officials, including Wenzel Anton, Prince Kaunitz-Rietberg, the prime minister, regarding trade between Austria and the United States and the possibility of an Austro-American commercial treaty (Jefferson, Papers , 8:478–480). Clearly Jefferson was unenthusiastic over the prospect of such a treaty, and if the Austrian ambassador to France, Comte Mercy d’Argenteau, made no treaty proposal, he would make none.

To John Jebb, 25 September 1785 Adams, John Jebb, John
To John Jebb
Dear Sir Grosvenor Square Septr. 25th 1785

I have read with pleasure your Letter of the 13th and although I cannot entirely agree with you, I find the difference between us is very Small in comparison with that between me and some other of my friends, in Mr Humes perfect commonwealth “no representative Magistrate or Senator as such has any salary. The Protector Secretaries, Councils and Ambassadors have salaries”1 your opinion Coincides with his excepting that you think the higher Magistrates as the Judges for example Should have salaries

I Carry the point so far as to desire that all representatives, Magistrates and Senators as well as Judges and Executive Officers Should have salaries; not merely upon the Principle of Justice that every Man has a right to compensation for his Time and Labour, but to maintain the responsibility of the Person, and to raise and support both in the Minds of the People themselvs and of their representatives senators and Magistrates a sense of the Dignity and importance of the People. these salaries to be sure Should be in proportion to the Nature and duration of the service a project to introduce such a practise into this Country would be Chimerical: but in a Country, where it has long obtained and still exists. I wish it to continue. in some parts of the United States it has ever prevailed and it is to be hoped it may be extended to all other parts. it is thought by many to be one of the best securities of Liberty and Equality

in the 13. p of the 2 Chap of the Constitution of Massachusetts you may see their sense of the Importance of salaries to Governors and Judges.2 my friend de Mably page 87 expresses great indignation against it “Je voudrois au contraire qu’a mesure que les Dignites sont plus importantes on leur attribuat des appointmens, moins considerables; Je voudrois méme qu elles ne’neussent aucun. on aime bien peu la Patrie, qu’and on demande des salaires Pour la471 servir. Que la Republique de Mass. ait le Courage de detruire la loi dont Je me plains3 I loves the Abby and revere his memory: but I was sorry, that so crude an Idea Should be scattered in America where many will be greedy to lay hold of it: and that a Great writer who had spent fifty years in reading upon Government, and done honour to his age by his writings Should adopt with such facility so Gross a Vulgar Error and popular blunder. Flattery has done more mischeif to society when addressed to the People than when offered to Kings. there is all ways in every Popular Assembly a Party actuated by a sordid avarice one of two Candidates for an Election by offering to serve without Pay will have all the votes of this description of Electors. so will the Abbys doctrine but he had not considered that an Aristocracy would be the immediate and inevitable Consequence of it. in the Mass. there would be no choice left there are but two at most. if there is more than one who could serve as Governor. a fine bargain the People would make of it. for the sake of saving a Penny a peice, which it would cost them for a salary they must pass by a thousand Wise and virtuous Men, and give their votes only for two rich ones and that, wheather they have Wisdom and virtues or not

The People save nothing in the End. the Consequence, is there must be no Strict inquiry, no exact accounts the Governors family must be provided for by offices, and his son, fit or unfit must be put in his place. the Magistrates in France instead of having salaries buy their offices. what is the Consequences Let the Abby himself say, he would answer from Heaven that they find ways to levy partial taxes to support even their Mistresses at three times the expence of the Whole salary of a Mass. Governor

adeiu—

LbC in AA2’s hand (Adams Papers); internal address: “Dr Jebb—”; APM Reel 107.

1.

JA quotes from David Hume’s essay “Idea of a Perfect Commonwealth” (David Hume, Essays and Treatises on Several Subjects, London, 1758, p. 276).

2.

Part 2, The Frame of Government; Ch. II, Executive Power; Sect. I, Governor; Art. 13 provides that “as the public good requires that the governor should not be under the undue influence of any of the members of the general court by a dependence on them for his support, that he should in all cases, act with freedom for the benefit of the public, that he should not have his attention necessarily diverted from that object to his private concerns—and that he should maintain the dignity of the commonwealth in the character of its chief magistrate, it is necessary that he should have an honorable stated salary, of a fixed and permanent value, amply sufficient for those purposes, and established by standing laws: and it shall be among the first acts of the general court, after the 472commencement of this constitution, to establish such salary by law accordingly.

“Permanent and honorable salaries shall also be established by law for the justices of the supreme judicial court.

“And if it shall be found that any of the salaries aforesaid, so established, are insufficient, they shall, from time to time, be enlarged as the general court shall judge proper.”

The language of these provisions was identical to the language in Ch. III, Executive Power; Sect. I, Governor; Art. 15 of JA’s 1779 draft of the Massachusetts constitution (vol. 8:253–254).

3.

JA here strings together three passages from Abbé de Mably’s Observations sur le gouvernment et les loix des États-Unis d’Amérique, Amsterdam, 1784, p. 87–88, 89, a copy of which is in JA’s library at MB ( Catalogue of JA’s Library ). As translated in Remarks Concerning the Government and the Laws of the United States of America, London, 1784, a copy of which is also in JA’s library at MB, the passages read, “I, on the contrary, could wish that, in proportion to the importance of the dignities, the salaries annexed might be the less considerable. I should even like to see the abolition of all salary whatsoever” (p. 109); “They little love their country who ask a salary for serving it” (p. 110); “But, let the republic of Massachusetts, at one bold stroke, destroy the law concerning which I am now complaining” (p. 111). For JA’s role in the publication of both French and English editions of Observations, which was in the form of four letters to JA, see vol. 16:index.