Papers of John Adams, volume 15

To Robert R. Livingston, 10 July 1783 Adams, John Livingston, Robert R.
To Robert R. Livingston
Sir, Paris July 10th. 1783.1

In the present violent heat of the Weather, and feverish state of my own health, I cannot pretend to sit long at my Pen, and must pray you to accept of a few short hints only.

To talk, in a general stile, of Confidence in the French Court &ca. is to use a general language, which may mean almost any thing, or almost nothing.— To a certain degree, and as far as the Treaties and Engagements extend, I have as much Confidence in the French Court, as Congress has, or even as you, Sir, appear to have.

But if by Confidence in the French Court is meant, an Opinion that the French Office of foreign Affairs would be Advocates with the English for our rights to the Fishery, or the Mississippi River, or our Western Territory, or Advocates to persuade the British Ministers to give up the Cause of the Refugees, and make a parliamentary provision for them, I own I have no such Confidence, and never had.— Seeing and hearing what I have seen and heard, I must have been an Idiot to have entertained such Confidence— And having no such Confidence, I should be more of a Machevilian, or a Jesuit, than I ever was, or will be, to counterfeit it to you or to Congress.

96

Mr. Marbois Letter is to me full proof of the principles of the C. de Vergennes. Why? Because I know, (for it was personally communicated to me upon my passage home by Mr. Marbois himself) the Intimacy and the Confidence there is between these two— And I know farther, that that Letter contains Sentiments concerning the Fisheries diametrically opposite to those, which Mr. Marbois repeatedly expressed to me upon the Passage, vizt. “That the Newfoundland Fishery was our right, and we ought to maintain it.” From whence I conclude, that Mr. Marbois Sentiments have been changed by the Instructions of the Minister. To what purpose is it, where this Letter came from? Is it less genuine, whether it came from Philadelphia, Versailles, or London? What if it came thro’ English Hands? Is there less weight, less evidence in it, for that? Are the Sentiments more just, or more friendly to Us, for that?

Mr. Rayneval’s Correspondence too with Mr. Jay. Mr. Rayneval is a Chef du Bureau. But we must be very ignorant of all Courts not to know, that an Under Secretary of State dares not carry on such a Correspondence without the Knowledge, Consent and Orders of the Principal.

There is another point now in agitation, in which the French will never give Us one good word. On the contrary, they will say every thing they can think of to persuade the English to deprive Us of the Trade of their West India Islands. They have already, with their Emissaries, been the chief Cause of the Change of Sentiments in London on this head against Us.

In general, they see with pain every appearance of returning real & cordial Friendship, such as may be permanent between Us and Great Britain. On the contrary they see with pleasure every Seed of Contention between Us. The Tories are an excellent Engine of Mischief between Us, and therefore very precious.— Exclusion of from2 the West India Islands, will be another.

I hold it to be the indispensible duty of my Station, not to conceal from Congress these Truths. Dont let Us be Dupes, under the Idea of being grateful. Innumerable Anecdotes happen daily to shew that these Sentiments are general.3

In Conversation a few Weeks ago with the Duke de la Vauguyon, upon the subject of the West India Trade, I endeavoured to convince him, that France & England both ought to admit Us freely to their Islands. He entered into a long Argument, to prove that both ought to exclude Us. At last I said, “the English were a parcel of Sots to exclude Us— for the consequence of it would be, that in 15 97or 20 Years we should have another War with them.” “Tant mieux! Tant mieux! Tant mieux! Je vous en felicite—” cried the Duke, with great pleasure. “Tant mieux pour nous,” says I, because we shall conquer from the English in that Case all their Islands, the Inhabitants of which would now declare for Us, if they dared— But it will be not the better for the English. They will be the Sots and Dupes, if they lay a foundation for it.— “Oui Monsieur, says the Duke, je crois que vous aurez une autre guerre contre les Anglais.”—4 And in this wish he expressed the feelings and the Vows of every Frenchman upon the face of the Earth.

If therefore We have it in Contemplation to avoid a future War with the English, dont let Us have too much Confidence in the French, that they will favor Us in this View.

I have the honor to be, with great Respect / and Esteem, / Sir, / your most obedient & / most humble Servant.

John Adams.5

RC in John Thaxter’s hand (PCC, No. 84, IV, f. 452–454); internal address: “R. R. Livingston Esqr / Secretary for foreign Affairs.” LbC (Adams Papers); APM Reel 108.

1.

In the Letterbook is the notation by John Thaxter: “July 11th. delivered to Capt. Barney.”

2.

The cancellation and the interlined “from” are in JA’s hand.

3.

This letter should be compared to JA’s letter to Livingston of 25 May, vol. 14:492–496. Both are replies to Livingston’s 4 Jan. letter to John Jay, which was in turn a reply to Jay’s letters of 4 and 18 Sept. and 13 Oct. 1782. It was Jay’s letter of the 18th that had enclosed François Barbé-Marbois’ intercepted letter mentioned in the fourth paragraph above. Specifically JA is replying to Livingston’s statement in his 4 Jan. 1783 letter that if Jay’s suspicions of French motives, which were very similar to JA’s, “should have been taken up too hastily, it is to be feared that, in defiance of all that prudence and self-possession for which you are happily distinguished, it will discover itself in a reserve and want of confidence which may afford hopes to our artful antagonists of exciting jealousies between us and our friends” (Wharton, Dipl. Corr. Amer. Rev. , 6:177).

4.

As modernized and translated, the entire conversation reads: At last I said, “the English were a parcel of sots to exclude us, for the consequence of it would be that in fifteen or twenty years we should have another war with them.”

“So much the better! So much the better! So much the better! I congratulate you,” cried the Duke, with great pleasure.

“So much the better for us,” said I, “because we shall conquer from the English in that case all their islands, the inhabitants of which would now declare for us, if they dared. But it will be not the better for the English. They will be the sots and dupes, if they lay a foundation for it.”

“Yes, sir,” said the Duke, “I think you will have another war with the English.”

5.

In JA’s hand.

To Robert Morris, 10 July 1783 Adams, John Morris, Robert
To Robert Morris
Sir, Paris July 10th. 1783.

Upon the receipt of the Dispatches by Barney, I sent off your Letters for Messs. Willinks & Co. and I recd. last Night an Answer to 98the Letter I wrote them upon the Occasion. They have engaged to remit Mr. Grand a Million & an half of Livres in a Month, which has relieved Mr. Grand from his Anxiety.1

This Court has refused to Dr. Franklin any more Money. They are apprehensive of being obliged to take a part in the Northern War, and their own Financiers have not enough of the Confidence of the Public to obtain Money for their own purposes.

Your design of sending Cargoes of Tobacco & other things to Amsterdam to Messs. Willinks & Co. is the best possible to support our Credit there. The more you send, the more Money will be obtained. Send a Minister too—residing there he may promote it much— It is a Misfortune, that I have not been able to be there— But this Post cannot be deserted— Instruct your Minister to enquire, whether the House of Hope could be persuaded to engage with Willink in a new Loan.2 This should be done with Secrecy & Discretion. If that House would undertake it, you would find Money enough for your purpose; for3 I rely upon it the States will adopt a Plan immediately for the effectual payment of Interest. This is indispensible. The foundation of an happy Government can only be laid in Justice; and as soon as the Public shall see, that Provision is made for this, you will no longer want Money.

It is a Maxim among Merchants and monied Men, that “every Man has Credit, who does not want it.”— It is equally true of States. We shall want it but little longer, if the States make Provision for the payment of Interest, & therefore we shall have enough of it. There is not a Country in the World, whose Credit ought to be so good because there is none equally able to pay.

Inclosed is a Pamphlet of Dr. Price for your Comfort.4 You will see by it, that the only Nation we have reason to fear wants Credit so much, that She is not likely to have it always, & this is our Security.

By some hints from Mr. Hartley, he will probably return to London, & not be here again. The present Ministry is so undecided & feeble, that it is at least doubtful, whether they will make the definitive Treaty of Peace.

With great Esteem, I have the honor &c

LbC in John Thaxter’s hand (Adams Papers); internal address: “Hon: R. Morris Esqr. / Superintendant of Finances”; notation: “July 11th. delivered to Capt. Barney.”; APM Reel 108.

1.

That is, JA’s letter to the consortium of 5 July and the consortium’s reply of the 7th, both above. The consortium wrote to JA on 10 July (Adams Papers) to inform him that on that day it had remitted ₶417,554.17.3 to Ferdinand Grand. The consortium also noted 99that Morris’ 8 May letter instructed them to pay any drafts drawn on Henry Laurens (Morris, Papers , 8:17–18). They, therefore, enclosed five drafts drawn on 6 July 1780 totaling f2,750.

2.

Hope & Co., a leading Amsterdam banking firm, had been suggested to JA in 1782 as a candidate to undertake the loan that the consortium ultimately raised. For JA’s comments on Hope & Co. in that context, see vol. 12:434–435. But for JA’s reference to a new loan to be raised solely by the Willinks, see his 11 July 1783 letter to Morris, and note 1, below.

3.

From this point to the end of the following paragraph, Morris copied JA’s comments on the necessity for the United States to scrupulously pay its foreign debts and enclosed them with letters to John Hancock of 20 Sept. and Elias Boudinot of 12 Nov. (Morris, Papers , 8:268–269, 533–535, 756–757; MHi: Sedgwick Family Papers). For Morris’ purpose in using this extract and another much longer one from JA’s 11 July 1783 letter, see Morris to JA, 20 Sept., and note 1, below.

4.

Probably Richard Price’s The State of the Public Debts and Finances at Signing the Preliminary Articles of Peace in January 1783; with a Plan for Raising Money by Public Loans, and for Redeeming the Public Debts, London, 1783.